Japan Expo 2025 is in full swing, and the highlight of this edition is undoubtedly the presence of three giants from the Dragon Ball universe: Toyotaro (author of Dragon Ball Super), Kazuhiko Torishima (legendary editor of Akira Toriyama), and Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru (character designer, animator, and animation director on DB, Z, GT, Super, and Daima).
PS : I translated my French article into English automatically. If there are any translation errors or unclear parts, feel free to ask me on Twitter.
Interview setup
We had the chance to talk in a private room for 1h30 with Toyotaro, Nakatsuru, and Torishima for a series of questions, which they answered in a very relaxed atmosphere. There were several media outlets present, and each got to ask questions. For example, I personally asked question 9 about new technologies, CGI, and AI in animation and manga (to be read in part 2, which will be published later).
Photos, video, and audio recordings were strictly forbidden, which made the experience particularly unpleasant, as I had to take notes like a madman while the answers poured out. (Honestly, I don’t see the point—forcing us to write super fast with no way to verify anything is the best way to make us write nonsense and spread misinformation, which goes against the guests’ best interests, in my opinion.)
Now, let’s move on to the interview!
Interview with Toyotaro, Torishima, and Nakatsuru at Japan Expo 2025 – PART 1
Please do not reproduce this interview. I spent a lot of time writing it, so I’d like to make a few cents from ad revenue to buy myself a sandwich.
Question 1: To all three of you – who is your greatest artistic influence, whether in manga or elsewhere?
Toyotaro: As you might expect, Dragon Ball had a huge influence on me as a child. But aside from that, all the manga I read as a kid—like Rurouni Kenshin, Slam Dunk, and other series from that era—inspired me. However, if a mangaka only reads manga, that’s not enough. The manga world is very narrow. I was also passionate about cinema and other standards. I was a big Star Wars fan as a kid and watched a lot of Hollywood movies, like the Back to the Future trilogy.
Torishima: Before joining Shueisha, I had never read manga, so I had no manga-related influences. I was passionate about novels and have always loved French literature—I read all of Stendhal. I even took a three-month break from university to read and study Proust, especially In Search of Lost Time (Note from DB-Z.com: That’s a novel by Proust). So, I feel a strong connection with France. I also love cinema. Here’s my top 3:
- The Godfather (1972) by Francis Ford Coppola
- Roman Holiday (1953) – and my ideal woman is Audrey Hepburn with short hair, as she appears in that film
- 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) – I think it’s a brilliant film that foresaw what’s to come with AI
Nakatsuru: Like Toyotaro, I was heavily influenced by manga and anime growing up. The works that left the strongest impression on me were those of Leiji Matsumoto—not one in particular, but his whole interconnected universe. That’s what got me interested in becoming an animator. Watching what are now considered classics, like Miyazaki’s Castle in the Sky, made me want to work in animation.
At the time, I worked on some of Leiji Matsumoto’s projects, but it was hard to make a living staying solely within his world. As I advanced in my career, I encountered Toriyama’s work, which ended up being my greatest artistic influence. Even now, I work under that influence.
Question 2: In 1984, when Dragon Ball launched, boys aged 5–15 made up 8.22% of Japan’s population. Today in 2024, it’s only 4.2%. So, the shonen demographic has shrunk by half in 40 years. With fewer and fewer young boys, how can the shonen genre reinvent itself?
Torishima: It’s true that demographics are a challenge for the entire Japanese press. That said, there will always be children, and we need to keep encouraging them. The real problem is that Shonen Jump and most magazines don’t create manga for kids anymore. Because of this, I think the future of manga looks bleak. More and more manga are read online—but access is limited for children, since they don’t have smartphones or credit cards.
Also, with digital manga, algorithms feed readers only the same kind of content. We’ve reached a point where all manga look the same, taste the same—like Starbucks manga or McDonald’s manga. Japanese manga has lost its sense of unique artistic identity. I think that at Shueisha, if editors ignore the data and go against the vision of people like me, then we’re in real danger.
Question 3: Is everything you’ve just said about manga in general—adults included—or only about children’s/teen’s manga?
Torishima: I’m talking about all-ages manga, but I’m especially focused on manga for children. Today, there’s a real problem: kids don’t read manga anymore. Editors say kids can’t follow panel layouts. But I tell them: Your paneling just isn’t good—it’s hard to read. For example, Toriyama’s manga was crystal clear. One Piece should be readable by elementary school kids, in terms of panel layout.
It’s not the mangaka’s fault—it’s the tanto (editorial supervisors), who don’t have strong enough skills in manga layout and readability. One reason is that publishers hire people who’ve only ever read manga. If you don’t hire people with broader tastes—cinema, literature—the creative world keeps shrinking. Example: If you only watch TV news, you only learn about zoom-ins and close-ups. But true cinema offers many camera angles. Osamu Tezuka was passionate about cinema and often used overhead shots in his manga. So I believe today’s mangaka are less technically skilled than Tezuka was.
Question 4: Takehiko Inoue said that for The First Slam Dunk movie, he had to relearn his manga and rearrange the panels for film. Is that what you’re talking about?
Torishima: I’ll be honest—I was bored watching that film. The best scenes weren’t the ones he originally drew. He sidelined the main characters from the manga. It felt like a movie for old Slam Dunk fans, not something designed to attract new ones—and that really frustrated me.
Question 5: Mr. Torishima, you’ve said that The Poe Clan and Kaze to Ki no Uta were the first manga you found interesting. What made these titles stand out to you?
Torishima: I had never read manga before joining Shueisha. They told me to read back issues of Shonen Jump. I read a bunch—they were all terrible. My boss told me to rank the series from 1 to 10 and comment on each. Then I asked to see the weekly reader survey—and I was shocked. Readers ranked them the exact opposite of how I did. I seriously considered quitting and checking job ads.
Near Shueisha, there was an archive building. Since I didn’t want to stay in the office, I started napping there. I found out they had tons of old manga and decided to read them all. The first manga I found truly interesting was a shojo (girls’ manga). You may know about the “Year 24 Group” (mangaka who began their careers in 1969, a turning point for more adult, subversive manga). Among them was Keiko Takemiya. Her works explored deep humanistic themes like childhood love—stuff never seen in manga back then. It was mind-blowing.
This was over 50 years ago, and it was revolutionary at the time. Meanwhile, Shonen Jump was full of dated, boring series. It was in that archive that I realized great, meaningful manga existed—and that it was possible to create them. That’s when I met Akira Toriyama, who helped me figure out how to evolve manga.
Question 6: Akira Toriyama is credited as the writer on Dragon Ball Super. Has his death changed how you approach the manga?
Toyotaro: We had two main working styles:
- I’d write the story and send it to Toriyama, and he’d give it the OK or not.
- Or sometimes he’d write a story and send it to me. I’d check if I could adapt it, send back my version, and he’d approve it or not.
So as you can see, a good portion of the story already came from me. That’s why I think it’s not impossible for me to continue the series—but it won’t be easy either.
Question 7: Mr. Nakatsuru, you took over as character designer for Dragon Ball Z during the Majin Buu arc, replacing Minoru Maeda. Was that a difficult challenge?
Nakatsuru: My first concern was whether I could meet expectations. But before the Majin Buu arc, I had already designed some guest characters for episodes. So I had been Maeda’s assistant and was familiar with the workload. It wasn’t easy to take on his responsibilities, but it was a challenge I couldn’t pass up.
Torishima: Let’s not forget—Nakatsuru has worked on Toriyama’s projects since Dr. Slump. He was highly skilled. An animator must reproduce another artist’s style. From my editor’s perspective, Maeda reproduced Toriyama’s style at about 80%—very good, but something was missing. Nakatsuru, on the other hand, was at 95%. Some scenes make you wonder, “Did Toriyama draw that himself?” In fact, Toriyama once saw Nakatsuru’s art and said, “Wait—I never drew this!” He’s the only animator Toriyama personally acknowledged.
Nakatsuru: Thank you. I’m honored by those words. But during the Majin Buu arc, we had a team of veteran animators deeply familiar with Toriyama’s universe.
Torishima: The Dragon Ball manga had massive momentum, and the animation team was already used to Toriyama’s art style. Reading the manga, they could reproduce everything. It might seem like every frame was tough to animate—but it was a huge team effort led by Nakatsuru that brought it all together. Not just the animation—even Bandai Namco’s games are made by teams who love Toriyama’s work. That’s why we have this beautiful trinity between manga, animation, and video games.
Question 8: Mr. Toyotaro, with Dragon Ball Super, how do you view Dragon Ball GT? Are there elements from DBGT that inspire you and make you want to integrate them officially?
Torishima: I didn’t work on Dragon Ball GT, so I can’t say much. GT came after Dragon Ball ended. Many parties—TV networks, Bandai Namco, partners—depended on Dragon Ball, and if it didn’t continue, we risked economic trouble. The easiest solution would’ve been to ask Toriyama to keep going. But he had just finished and was done. The only thing we could ask was for him to design the characters and create a basic plot. Then we handed it off to a team and said, “Here—do your best with this.”
Toyotaro: Story-wise, DBGT takes place way after Dragon Ball Super. I think some GT elements ended up in Dragon Ball DAIMA. I don’t think GT gave me ideas for Super, but I did borrow some visual elements. Artistically, GT was also Nakatsuru’s work—it stayed very true to Toriyama’s style, and that inspired me.
Please don’t reproduce this interview—I spent a ton of time writing it, and I’d like to earn a bit of ad money for a sandwich.
End of Part 1. Part 2 will be published in a few hours.